Transcript

Bennie F. Johnson

Right. Hello. And thank you for joining us for this episode of AMA’s  Marketing / And this is a special live episode from New York City and The Green Space. It’s AMA’s first ever live recording of our podcast. I’m your host, AMA CEO Bennie Johnson. Tonight we’re going to explore life through a marketing lens, looking at the points of unexpected journey that happen with marketing.

We’re going to talk to innovators who you might not have heard of, but are exactly the ones you need to know. We have four incredible guests today. Our conversation is going to start with LaFontaine Oliver, President and CEO of New York Public Radio and then Dean Lerzan Askoy from the Gabrieli School of Business at Fordham University. Fernando Romero, SVP of digital AD, says for a television TelevisaUnivision. And that’s when, at least Forest Young, executive director of design for the Fundamental company. So our first guest today is really at home. We’re actually recording this in his home in New York Public Radio. But LaFontaine Oliver is the new president and CEO of New York Radio, the largest public radio organization in the country and a leading national broadcast producer.

An essential source for trustworthy news and classic music for New Yorkers. And NYPR reaches millions of people every day across WNYC, WQXR, the WNYC Studios, and This Space, the Jerome L Greene Performance Center and New Jersey Public Radio. So LaFontaine brings over 20 years of experience in both national and regional markets with public radio. He served recently two terms as the National Board Chair of NYPR.

His experience in radio and media has spanned everywhere from DC to Baltimore to Orlando and New York. LaFontaine thrives on these interconnections of media and marketing. But LaFontaine welcome to our podcast.

LaFontaine E. Oliver

Thank you Bennie I appreciate the you know, they offered to, to join you. I’ve been a fan of the podcast, so it’s great to have the opportunity to be here with you today.

Bennie

But that means a lot because you’ve spent a lot of time in public radio. So we’re going to take you back. You know, we talk about these points of marketing and unexpected. So when you were a student at the University of Miami, you were actually a marketing major?

LaFontaine

I was, yes.

Bennie 

So you talk. A little bit about how did you enter into the major, and how did that transition you into your first stint in radio at the University of Miami?

LaFontaine 

Wow. So you went all the way back?

Bennie

I had to go back to I had to go back to the Genesis.

LaFontaine

Yeah. So, Wow. So it growing up, initially I wanted to be a performer. I was a theater kid, and, so I literally grew up in performance, whether it was theater, television, a couple independent film roles. But, when it was time to go off to college, I called myself doing the more practical thing, which was, you should get a business degree. And so, I did my undergraduate studies at the University of Miami and, while I did my electives in communications, I went to the school of business there and, and studied marketing because, again, in my mind, it was the practical thing to do at the time.

Bennie 

Right. So what got you into the radio station?

LaFontaine 

Yeah. So, I actually have a rich sort of history and lineage in, in broadcasting. You know, my dad worked in radio, and it was it was wonderful as a young person, getting to sort of see my dad, in the business and, in a lot of ways, broadcast and, performance were, were sort of, symbiotic and and so initially when I got to campus, I remember thinking, oh, you know what? I’m going to go check out this, this, campus radio station and see what this is all about. And, like a lot of college radio stations at the time, it was a, a, primarily a music format at station, alternative, that is. And so, I remember going in and this was, you know, in my eyes, sort of the heyday of, of radio and, so at that time, as a freshman, you couldn’t just walk on campus and, you know, get a show and so I had to I had to wait for a timeslot to open up. And I remember it being an overnight slot. So, it was something.

Bennie 

Did the voice get deeper for the overnight timeslot?

LaFontaine

You know, you got to settle into that lower register when you’re, when you’re talking to folks at 2:00 in the morning. But yeah, so I, I, I got, finally got a shift on, on the station during, during overnights and, interestingly enough, I forget which name hurricane came through that year, but one of the big hurricanes, came through.

And I remember them asking for volunteers. Okay, manned the station during a hurricane. And at the time, I didn’t really know what that entailed. But being, bright eyed, young, hungry freshman, I raised my hand. And it was interesting, as all of the others who were in the meeting looked around like, oh my goodness. Like he’s actually volunteering for this.

And what I had actually signed up for, was to be locked and sandbagged into the radio station to keep the station on broadcasting throughout the hurricane, because the station was a part of the emergency network in, in, in Coral Gables. And so the job was you didn’t power down when a hurricane came through.

This was actually the time where the community was relying, even on a student run station to give them critical information about the path of the storm, evacuation routes and things like that. And so, little did I know, I was, volunteering to be locked in, sandbagged into the, the station as a, as a freshman, and that, actually proved to be a pretty smart move because, shortly thereafter, I ended up, getting elected to become general manager of that station and went on to do all sorts of wonderful things that really set me up for, for the career that I have today.

Bennie 

Right. So it’s interesting you talk about getting elected to be general manager of the station. Now, skip ahead to recently your career, did you ever imagine that you’d be elected to be chair of NPR?

LaFontaine

No. I could not have, even dreamed that that would happen. In fact, I was I remember actually being surprised when I was approached to join the, the board. And so I was even more surprised when I was asked to chair the board. And it was during a pretty tumultuous time in public media, although I would say, I think all of media has been experiencing a tumultuous period here. Prolonged period. But no, I could not have imagined that my career path would take me from that little, small, college radio station at the University of Miami to then, sort of being the guy right next to the CEO, as chairman of the board of NYPR.

Bennie 

And then that journey takes you here. Yes, to New York, which, you know, we talk about New York being the big stage, but, you know, this is the largest public radio station and largest podcaster in the country. You know, a lot of the work and a lot of things we talk about in marketing are about engaging with customer and embracing a community. And radio stations, a particular public are very much, as you’ve already kind of alluded to, about not just entertainment, but about impact. So recently, New York public Radio celebrated its 100th anniversary. So talk a bit about what New York Radio, Public Radio has meant to the community and continues to mean to the community here.

LaFontaine

Yeah. So I mean, first of all, if I would say, you know, I feel extremely grateful and privileged to have the opportunity to lead this organization during, this time of, of the centennial. And, for most of, w y C’s history, it was owned and operated by the city of, of of New York, but has a storied history, over the years of, providing news and information, arts and culture and, and even music, to, to the people of, of New York.

And, I think it’s significant because there’s this, enduring, utility, to radio that you know, I’m proud to sort of be a part of and, and oftentimes we talk about, we think about, radio and, and the news sometimes almost as kind of an insurance policy. It’s typically only like a handful of like big news days in a year.

And you can you can think back and it’s like, oh, you know, you have a 911 or, you know, you have, hurricane Sandy or you have, but when you think about that, it’s like, how you handle those few big news days in a year really determines where people go and who they rely on. The other, you know, 360 days out of the year when you know, things are not falling apart.

And so, to know that this station has been here for New Yorkers through 911, through Sandy, through you name it. And it’s one that we have a phenomenal, archivist who’s, who’s, digitizing the archives of, of WNYC and, and just the, the audio that we have going back, it’s just it’s tremendous. So it means a lot to be here during this particular time.

Bennie 

So talk a little bit about voice. So one of the things that you’ve kind of led into is the rise of podcasting for conversations like this, you know, and podcasting has become a go to tool for marketers. So give us a little bit of your thoughts on this moment in radio. With the rise of podcasting and the impact that.

LaFontaine

Yeah, you know, it’s interesting talk about, you know, boom and bust in some ways. But you know, voice voice is just really powerful. You know, and for those of us who sort of came up in the medium of, of radio, we, we, we describe it as, as theater of the mind, because it really is about using the voice and words, to paint vivid pictures, in the mind and in the sort of eyes of, of the, the listener.

And, it’s, it’s really interesting to sort of be now in a, in a period of, quite honestly, great disruption as it relates to, to broadcast and media and audio that, that both has, you know, opportunities and, and, and pitfalls. I would say, when you consider that, you know, there WNYC in particular was really at the forefront of the podcast movement.

And, you know, many of the folks who learned, and developed the craft here have gone on out into the world and are producing and leading some of the, the most influential and important, outfits in podcasting. And, so that’s, that’s something really, really special to, to to be a part of. It’s a, it’s a renaissance of audio and it is forcing I think, organizations, like New York Public Radio, to think about how we now reinvent ourselves, being both a legacy broadcaster that that is still seeking to serve audiences through sort of what we call the terrestrial broadcast waves, but, also looking to meet audiences where they are and serve them, on cell phones and smart speakers and, you know, computers and, and really to, to bring that intimacy, and that power of voice to whatever platform, where our listeners may roam is, is really important. And, there have been some real shifts in podcasting that have, have really, sort of changed, I think, the trajectory of, of podcasting.

But, we’re excited to be a part of, I think the, the early sort of stages of that. And, you know, we’re going to continue to find ways to, push the state of the art and be a part of sort of what’s next in audio and audio discovery.

Bennie 

Well, you think about that. Any nods that you can give to our audience as to what they should be thinking about? If you’re thinking about getting into podcasting space?

LaFontaine

Wow. I would say, it’s a crowded space. And so one of the things you, you certainly want to be thinking about is, you know, what is your sort of, sort of, where’s your right to win? Like, where do you have, particular niche, a particular area where you can, you can shine where you can, provide something, that is, is of a value. I think that is really important in an environment where, you know, we’ve gone from, from, from content being scarce to, you know, content being in abundance. And so, part of the name of the game now is, you know, how do you sort of, stand out in, in, in a crowded field. So I’m really thinking about that, that, that area of distinction or that place where you really have a right to win.

Bennie 

So I’m, I’m going to take you back again to your recent. Okay. So any marketing lessons that you learned then that still hold true for you today?

LaFontaine

Oh my goodness. Lots of them. So where do I start? So you know, marketing from a broadcast standpoint is hugely important. There’s a quote that I love and it’s been attributed to a number of different people over the years. So I won’t say who it comes from, but it says something along the lines of, without marketing or advertising, something terrible happens.

Nothing. And I think that was one of the things that I learned, back in those early university days, is that, one as a broadcaster, you have to use all of the tools that you have, to market both to people that are listening. Right, so that you are increasing the number of occasions that they listen, you are increasing the amount of time that they spend with you.

But in order to grow your audience, you actually have to you can’t sort of preach to the choir. You actually have to do outside marketing in order to induce sampling and to draw people in. And so I learned a lot in those early days about the symbiotic relationship between media and marketing, both, what we do with our owned and operated platforms to sort of grow audiences and move audiences, but also how we ideally, attract those audiences.

And I guess one of the other big lessons that I learned that there’s actually a bunch of them. But, you know, we’ve all heard the saying, tell them what you’re going to tell them, tell them, and then tell them what you told them. You know, learning that it is that consistency of message you have to, to, to sort of keep, driving.

Those messages, and I also learned that, you know, when you’re, when you’re in it, you can you can get tired of it pretty, pretty quickly. Right? It’s only until like, you get absolutely tired of the marketing message to the forward promotion, whether it’s you name it, you know, live in local news, you know, news and information, traffic and weather on the eights or whatever it is until you are absolutely tired of it.

Right? Your audience probably hasn’t even begun to sort of get that message, and it hasn’t really begun to stick to them in a way that is going to move them forward the way that you want. So those are a few of the lessons that I, that I learned.

Bennie 

So in the theme of lessons, I’m going to ask you this. So your son is just starting in his career. Yeah. So what are the lessons that you, as LaFontain as dad coalesce with you as LaFontaine, a CEO that you’re able to provide for him?

LaFontaine 

Wow, that’s a good one. He would probably have had some interesting answers for you if he was. He is, as you know, he is, you know, finding his way quite a bit, in the world of, of social media and, and that has sort of really thrust him into a position where he’s doing quite a bit of marketing and branding work.

And I guess I would, I would start I would sort of back up from the beginning and start and say, you know, my first real advice to him really was that, you know, as a parent, I’m like, man, we’ve ceded so many things, you know, in your you have your entire life to go and play it safe and get a job and work for someone.

Figure out what it is that you’re passionate about and create your own reality. And so I’m really, you know, just just proud to see that he’s he, he took that lesson and he’s, he’s doing that. But then to sort of bring that forward, I think one of the messages that or lessons that, that, that I try to instill in him is, change in the pace of change.

Right? So you, you, you, you know, whatever you think is the answer for today, count on it being different tomorrow. And so, you know, get used to change. That is another lesson. And then, I think the other thing I’ve been really trying to get him to understand is, is brand extensions. So you may be doing this right now, today, think about all of the other ways you can branch and splinter that off into extensions of that brand to extend, extend your career, extend your reach, extend your relevance.

And that then becomes really valuable as you are interacting with brands.

Bennie 

Wow. It’s really powerful on that. So we think LJ is listening.

LaFontaine

We’ll make sure he will make sure we get this us.

Bennie 

But I love the conversation because you have an opportunity to mentor and lead with him, but you’re also being reinforcement learning from his experience.

LaFontaine 

Oh, absolutely.

Bennie 

Kind of an unexpected world of being a content creator, and how that changes some of the norms that we studied and grew up with, right?

LaFontaine 

Oh, absolutely. I mean, and it’s really interesting now because, you know, he spent, you know, a bunch of years, you know, watching me in the business. And now he is, you know, sort of translating that for for folks his age and, and having quite a bit of success, in fact, you know, to be completely honest, I mean, he’s a part of the disruption, that, you know, we are feeling in, you know, traditional, in traditional legacy media, you know, part of the challenge that I think a lot of us are experiencing is experiencing right now is, is sort of the pullback in the ad market.

Right. And a lot of that is attributed to the fact that, you know, they can go to content creators like my son and get 10 or 12 of them, who have, you know, a million, 2 million followers. And, they can actually, you know, with a reduced marketing spend, actually achieve some of the same things and be able to directly track some of that in ways that, for us in traditional media, we are still trying to sort of figure out how to do that.

So yeah, it’s really interesting. You know, in some ways, you know, I’m learning from him. Right?

Bennie

So I ask the question, what’s next for New York Public Radio?

LaFontaine 

Wow. I think what’s next for New York Public Radio is a couple things. One, when I look out at sort of the landscape, not just here in New York City, but in communities across the country. The crisis today is in local news and information, serving the local information, the needs of communities. And so what I think is next for New York Public Radio is figuring out, even more how to, to meet those information needs.

As we like to say, not only for New Yorkers, but for those with the New York State of mind, for the New Yorker in, in all of us. I think that’s what’s next. I think the other thing that’s next is, is really trying to figure out how to develop more addressing 1 to 1 relationships so that we we go from sort of this, this broadcasting model, perhaps to something that feels more like narrow casting and or, or connecting with, individuals in ways that are going to create the stickiness that is going to, ensure the financial support that has really sort of supported and undergirded, public media stations like WNYC in New York Public Radio for years. I think that’s next. And then figuring out, as I said before, how do we push the state of the art, and become, continue to be a leader in and, and media for you know, the big what’s next for all of us?

Bennie

Wow. I can’t believe that we’re at our time now. I can’t believe it. I know, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t take this opportunity for you to get the final word for our podcast today, but I want you to close it out like you used to close out your overnight radio show. I think that’s only fitting that I turn the mic completely over to you and you take us home.

LaFontaine

My friend. While I wish I could, I could remember exactly how I used to, to to do that, but I guess, if I have a moment to to just, say a parting word, it would be that, you know, the pace of change continues to speed up, I think, in, as we think about, the world of media and marketing and promotion and advertising and, I’m looking forward to continuing to listen, to leaders like you and the leaders that you are bringing on this podcast because, that is one of the ways that I continue my lifelong learning. And, I feel like I get a little bit of a leg up, as I’m trying to look around the corner and figure out what’s next, for my organization and for my industry. So thank you for the work that you’re doing.

Bennie 

And thank you. And thank you all for our first portion of our episode of AMA marketing and live from New York. Once again, I’m your host, Bennie Johnson, AMA CEO. Thank you.

BREAK

Bennie

All right. So. So we like to keep things really agile and flexible and dynamic. So LaFontaine Oliver, when you come back to the stage. So he remembered. He remembered the sign off.

LaFontaine

Yes. He tripped me up asking me that question.

Bennie

So. So we just heard the sign off and only a handful of us heard it. But I think we all need to hear the sign off. So we’re going to record this and punch this in as a bonus part of the episode. So I’m going to.

LaFontaine 

Sign off.

Bennie

To readers. You know, here we are at the end of another AMA marketing and podcast, our episode. We’re going to have LaFontaine Oliver close us out.

LaFontaine

So my sign off was yesterday is tomorrow will always end up today. So say what you mean and always mean what you say. I’m out.

Bennie

And that’s marketing.